“Carnival of Souls” was an album that divided the KISS fans and caused major controversy in all the forums and the fanzine columns around that time. To tell you the truth, personally I needed a few months to adjust to the new musical direction of KISS. The person behind the console was Toby Wright, a producer responsible also for albums by such artists as Alice in Chains, Korn, Sevendust and many others. I am sure that all the die-hard KISS fans had noticed his name…10 years before “Carnival of Souls”. We talked exclusively with Toby via Skype…   

Interview: Sakis Nikas

Rockpages.gr: Toby, you were first involved with KISS as an assistant engineer for “Crazy Nights”. How did this collaboration come up?

Toby Wright: I was working at One on One Studios as the only engineer/assistant engineer at the time and one of my good friends, Ron Nevison, loved that studio and he used to bring all the acts that he was producing back then. One of them happened to be KISS.

Rockpages.gr: The recording sessions took place in One on One Studios under the production guidance of Ron Nevison. Which were exactly your duties and how did it feel for you to be working with Nevison?

Toby Wright: I was engineering for him and generally assisting in the studio…it felt great; Ron’s one of the best producers in the world. I learned a lot from him and all in all it was an amazing experience.

Rockpages.gr: Would you like to describe a typical day in the studio with KISS at that time?

Toby Wright: If I can remember correctly, it started out around noon, had some lunch, then we got around doing the tracking…Eric Carr was alive at that point; he was an amazing drummer! Then after that, we were doing some overdubs…guitars, bass, vocals.

Rockpages.gr: Back then, KISS was heavily based on Paul Stanley with Gene Simmons being tangled up with other projects. Was this evident in the studio?

Toby Wright: Definitely yes! For that record, definitely, yes. It was mostly a “Paul and Ron” record and Gene just stepped in when it was only necessary. I remember him being absent a lot but the sessions kept on going without him.

Rockpages.gr: So, the more commercial direction of “Crazy Nights”…was it something that KISS, Nevison or both of them wanted?

Toby Wright: Probably yes. I wasn’t really involved in that kind of decisions. They have done some pre-production and some stuff before they went into the studio…it was all decided before I was even involved.

Rockpages.gr: During the 90s, I was seeing your name on many records and I wasn’t surprised when I read in an interview back in late 1994 that KISS considered you as their next producer. How did you hook up with them again? Did they call you and how did they approach you?

Toby Wright: I was a friend of Bruce Kulick and when they felt like doing a new record my name came up…I am sure they were looking at some other guys…I remember going through an interview with them; that went well and the next thing I knew was working at the studio with them.

Rockpages.gr: Back then, all the KISS fans was reading about new song titles and a possible dark direction of the new album, but there wasn’t a clear release date. What was the reason behind the delay and what signals did you receive from Stanley & Simmons? Did they want to release the new album or were they thinking already of the reunion?

Toby Wright: I am sure that they wanted to do the reunion. The whole reunion discussion started in the middle of the production of “Carnival of Souls”…Gene got a call…I am not sure from whom and they offered him millions of dollars to do the reunion and put back on the make-up. So we finished off the record and Eric and Bruce were let go…it was sad for them really. The record got shelved and they went out as the original KISS. Personally, I believe that it was all done for the money and it was an unfortunate timing for “Carnival of Souls”. I really loved that album and I am of the opinion that it is one of their best works ever as it shows an interesting side of their songwriting. Subsequently, Gene and the record label thought that it wouldn’t be a good idea to release that album now that the original guys were back together.

Rockpages.gr: The grunge musical climate of the record was something that annoyed many traditional KISS fans. Apart from the band’s decision to write in such a way, how crucial was your input in the shaping of “Carnival of Souls”?

Toby Wright: I think my input was important. After all, they knew that beforehand that’s why they hired me. They were aware of the work that I have done with Alice in Chains and all the other “grunge type of bands”. At that point, Gene was very keen on following trends; he had an eye for all those bands that were very successful in the music industry around that time. I remember he and I got into a discussion and he told me that he wanted KISS to sound like Smashing Pumpkins! I was pretty taken aback with that and I told him: “Look! You are a legend. Why you wanna sound like somebody else”? Then he changed his mind and he told me that he didn’t necessarily want to be musically similar to Smashing Pumpkins but as successful as them. He strongly believed that it was crucial for KISS to follow that trend. So, that’s where I got in the whole picture.

Rockpages.gr: Clearly the star of the album is Bruce Kulick who was more or less involved in every single song of “Carnival…”. Describe to us how the recordings were during that time…

Toby Wright: It was pretty much the same things going around as I told you earlier for “Crazy Nights”. Yes, you are right though…Bruce Kulick was heavily involved in “Carnival of Souls” and he was there almost every day. We got the songs laid down at the Music Grinder in Hollywood Boulevard…everybody was tracking live at that point. Bruce played almost all the guitars on the record and he was very instrumental on getting the right tones and some really good performances on that album. So, that’s why “Carnival of Souls” sounds like a more “live record” in comparison with some other KISS records.

Rockpages.gr: Anything special about the song “Childhood’s End”…?

Toby Wright: That was a very interesting song; one of Gene’s songs…I remember we got a group of young kids in the studio because had in mind an atmosphere similar to a Bob Ezrin recording on a Pink Floyd record…“The Wall” kind of a treatment. We just followed Gene’s vision.

Rockpages.gr: Why did Bob Ezrin leave a short while after the initial pre-recording sessions?

Toby Wright: To tell you the truth, I don’t know. All I remember was getting a call from my manager saying that KISS wanted me to produce their next record.

Rockpages.gr: I believe that there are many unreleased songs from the “Carnival of Souls” sessions. Do you remember how many songs were properly recorded and can you really tell us anything about the leftover tracks?

Toby Wright: I can’t really tell how many songs were exactly recorded. I know that we got through 20-25 songs and I don’t remember any song titles from the leftover tracks. We just put aside the ones that didn’t feel right for “Carnival of Souls”.

Rockpages.gr: You haven’t seen KISS in a long time. Had they changed as persons and what was the impression that they left you?

Toby Wright: Not really. Around the “Crazy Nights” period I wasn’t that involved on a personal level with them. I was there to provide the right tones and make the record sound great. I was trying to make sure that everything Ron wanted sonically for “Crazy Nights” would be there…on the record. The songs should definitely sound like Ron had envisioned them and that was my job. When I got to work with them for “Carnival of Souls”, I got to know them better, had discussions with them, saw how they worked as songwriters etc. 8 years before I didn’t have that chance.